Harry Pantoulias was born in 1935 in the village of Agla Vista (now Perivoli) in Greece. He shared memories of growing up during the German and Italian occupation of Greece during the Second World War. In 1948, at age 12, Pantoulias and his family immigrated to Canada, settling in Thunder Bay, Ontario. He described the challenges of adjusting to the harsh Canadian winters and finding work, including shining shoes and working in restaurants and construction. He went on to become a high school teacher and was very active in the Greek community in Oshawa, Ontario, serving in various leadership roles.
Alexandros Ms. Eleni, it is a pleasure. I am Alexandros Balasis. Today is Monday, the 15th of April 2024. We are located in Toronto, Canada and I would like you to tell me your first and last name.
EleniI am Eleni Vlachou, I was born in Vervena Kinouria, 1937.
Alexandros Ms. Eleni, how were your childhood years in the village?
EleniVery difficult.
Alexandros What do you remember?
EleniA lot.
Alexandros Tell me.
Eleni When there is poverty, and parents do not have the strength to put you in the school you love.
Alexandros What did your parents do?
Elenilabour work
Alexandros Did they…
EleniNothing of our own, for others
Alexandros: They worked as farmers?
Eleni Daily wage.
Alexandros Did you help at all in the work?
EleniI helped from five years old until ten to eleven, my mother had a lot of kids, and every so often another kid, we were eight siblings, and I helped, my mom was gone at work, and I would take care of the kids.
Alexandros Indeed, you mentioned eight siblings. Were they all girls?
Eleni Five boys and three girls, and I was the second, my brother was the oldest and first.
AlexandrosYour grandfathers and grandmothers, did they all help the family did you all live together?
EleniNot at all, they all did the same with the estates.
AlexandrosWith what? What did they plant in that area? What was being produced?
EleniAt the time then the one village was a summer village so nothing because it is 1200m altitude, and really cold. The other village where we went for winter, olives, olive oil.
AlexandrosDid you have animals maybe? Did you have animals?
Eleni Us as a family, neither olives nor animals, just one donkey, sorry. That is what we had.
Alexandros Nice, I want you to tell me, did you have problems in 1940, that period with the Civil War? Or let’s begin with the Second World War. Do you remember at all, do you have any memories from the war?
EleniIn 1940, I was just three years old, I do not remember many things. The only thing I remember is that in my village they would pass by really low with some big black planes and kill the people who were out to hide in the mountains, so the men and the children.
AlexandrosSo, when is this case you describe?
Eleni1940
AlexandrosDo you have any memories from your parents, or your mother or your father from the war the declaration of the war or the Germans, the Italians in the village?
Eleni My father…
AlexandrosYes…
EleniWould talk to us about this, because he had gone twice to be a soldier and a lot of things had happened then with the wars but he would not tell us the important or the hard things. Let me say something and if you do not like it you can delete it. The second time he went to be a soldier in Albania, my father never carried a gun, he was scared, he would go under a … and would come out to get water to fill his bottle. And when the war ended and he came out to fill his bottle with water, he filled it from the bottle of a person who was killed beside there. That scared us and we told him to not tell us stuff again. We did not want to hear about it.
AlexandrosDuring the Civil War were there dichotomies in the village? Do you remember something specific? Events? Or arguments between the villagers?
Eleni A lot…
Alexandros: What do you remember? Tell me a little bit more.
Eleni: For the smallest things, they would argue. For insignificant things, from what I remember. Because the chicken went to the other field, something small.
Alexandros: I mean were there people from the village who went up to the mountain like rebels?
Eleni: Yes, yes they were rebels and my mother's brother.
Alexandros: What did your mother tell you about that?
Eleni: Nothing, we di not want to, my father forbade my mother and anyone else who came to our home to speak to us about this stuff. He did not want to scare us
Alexandros: Did your family however have a problem because a family member went to the mountain? For example…
Eleni: Not at all, no, we did not have. And one who was the leader, they called him “Moutzouri”, I do not remember his first name, they burned his house, he loved his little child a lot.
Alexandros: The leader of who?
Eleni: The leader of the rebels, rebels how are they called? And he sent my mom in secret to go get the child from his house to bring it to our house so he could see it and if she did not go he told her he would cut her head off, and my mother was forced and did it, but nothing happed to us.
Alexandros: Did that area have those groups the Chites, have you heard of them?
Eleni: No.
Alexandros: With the Dosilogous for example did you have any problems? Did they exist in the village? Like collaborators of the Germans or…
Eleni: No my village was really small approximately 200 houses we did not have that. The one I remember, I did not know who they were. And first cousin of my mothers, from the area of Tripoli, Rizes, the village was called, came and threw out everything we had from the window, whether it was a plate or a cup, whatever, because if he did not do it they would have killed him, but I do not remember what they were.
Alexandros Nice, no problem.
Eleni I do not remember.
Alexandros From your village did you have people who had emigrated, that left and went to other places?
Eleni No the only one I knew was beside our house there was one man who went to the U.S. and became rich, and came back and built his house like a castle, I only know about him.
Alexandros Did you know him personally, or did your family have any relations with him?
Eleni Only with his daughter, we were classmates in elementary school. Him? I had only maybe seen him five times.
AlexandrosSo, there was only one family or specifically one person who left?
Eleni Yes. And my grandfather, my mother's father. He was not lucky, he went to the U.S. Some war had happened then in America, I do not know what, and he came back, he would not eat, whatever they threw in the garbage because he had told me the whole story. And he returned blind.
AlexandrosIndeed.
Eleni: And he gave me a wish. May no one trick me into moving to a foreign land. Moving to a foreign land for my child is a very difficult thing. That is what I remember from my grandfather.
Alexandros I understand. I want you to tell me about this, it is interesting. So you did have some families who had come to the U.S. and for example, one returned and made a fancy house and
EleniAnd the other came back blind
Alexandros: And the other came back blind. How did you view those people that had left and then came back? Did you have respect? Awe? How were people like this seen in your village?
Eleni The rich one, when I saw him I did not, how do I say this, no I can not say, like any impression to speak to him to say good morning. But my grandfather a lot, because he told me his story, I was around 12 years old then and I had three or four siblings with me and he would invite us and we would go sleep there and he told me the stories. I will never forget this stuff. And when I came here, before I got on the ship I was thinking of him.
Alexandros So tell me, the decision to come here to Canada, how did you make it?
Eleni I did not make the decision my child. The choice was my mother’s, without asking anyone not even my father.
Alexandros What do you mean, explain it to me.
Eleni My mom ran into some neighbour who did an application for her daughter to come to Canada. Jewish people were looking for maids, and my mother without thinking of bringing it up to my father and I went and did the application. And when the papers came in a folder big like this. this What is that? I did an application” for this and that, she said. I did the application so Eleni could go to Canada to save the kids, the boys. “
Alexandros Wait a minute, I have a lot of questions.
Eleni Tell me. Am I saying it okay or am I making mistakes?
Alexandros You are saying it alright do not worry. My first question is how old were you in that time when that happened?
Eleni In that time, when my mom did it, twentytwo.
AlexandrosIn her mind did she have, I can imagine, the thought of dowry, whether there is or is not any?
Eleni I will tell you the truth. My mother never thought of it because they did not have the strength to say anything about dowry and stuff like that, nothing. My mother, the only thing she thought of when she met that woman was for me to leave to save her kids. Even though, my brother was older and she could have sent him off, not me. But at that time he went to, how do I say, where they become teachers, Academia Tripoleos.
Alexandros: Indeed. Did you go to university, I forgot to ask you, did you ever go to continue some type of art or something?
Eleni: I loved studying a lot but I did not have the luck. I would go whenever there was time to write a test. We had one teacher. All the classes had that one teacher back in those years. He would send me the work with my friend that rich man's daughter, we were not that close of friend, Margarita. I would read it and when the day to write came I would go. And I finished with a nine, I did not go, in the month I would go maybe twice.
Alexandros: After though when you got older?
Eleni: when I got older from twelve years old onwards I would go to work, hard labour.
Alexandros: What kind of work? Tell me.
Eleni: You see the olive tree here and the one there. I would go, very hard labour, my brother would shake them down, we did not have the cloth then, and my mother and I would collect them.
Alexandros: By hand one by one?
Eleni: Down down, not one my one, we did it fast. On the first trip my brother would do it who was two years younger than me, with our donkey he would take the first bags and the second ones at night. We collected them from the ground, it was plowed and with thorns, our hands would bleed. And when one water would finish, one bottle we had, we would drink it as we got thirsty and drink it and then as the animals would pass they would make deep footprints and we would kneel there and drink water. How do you forget those things?
Alexandros: Miss Eleni, your mother somewhere saw from a friend…
Eleni A neighbour…
Alexandros: A neighbour. That there is a program that they take domestic servants in Canada. When that folder came what did you do?
Eleni: To tell you the truth, I wanted to go become a nun, I would prefer it. I did not go though because I loved my younger sisters a lot, excessive love.
Alexandros: So you thought of them.
Eleni: And I thought of the girls what would happen to them. My father did not want, my father, to tell you the truth, cried to me when we read that paper and told her “Amalio, no” that is how they would speak back then “I will not let my daughter go. Here we will eat cabbage and greens without oil.” My mother, no. And that is why out of my kindness I kept the promise.
Alexandros: After that what was the next step? Did you leave the village and go to Athens?
Eleni: After that, what could I do? I decided on it and accepted it. When the papers came to go to the doctors, my mother took me to Athen. We went to the doctors, everything was okay and they booked the date for me to get into the school for some classes mostly on how to take care of the babies and how to iron. Those were the very basics.
Alexandros: I imagine this was your first time going to Athens.
Eleni: The first time I went to Athens was when I was seventeen to go see my brother because I also loved him a lot. This was when he had done some surgery on his tonsils in the hospital.
Alexandros: What was your impression of Athens?
Eleni: I did not see anything my child. What would I have seen? I just went to the hospital and left. I did not see anything. And after, when I lived there for six months again I did not see anything.
Alexandros: Nice, so you went to Athens, went to the doctors, got into the school.
Eleni: Yes, when I got into the school was the 7th of January 1960, the day of St. Johns
Alexandros: Where was this school, do you remember?
Eleni: It was 4 Trikorfon, close to Omonia.
Alexandros: And what was this school exactly, could you describe it?
Eleni: We had two teachers. One was for the housework and the other would teach us the English language a bit. But we did not understand much of it, from a village of 200 houses to go to Athens to learn English it was so hard. The iron and those things were really easy.
Alexandros: So you did English and…
Eleni: English and housework.
Alexandros: So, for the housework what did you do exactly?
Eleni: They taught us how to mop, how to cook foreign food, how to behave was the most important and how to take care of the babies and how to iron with big folds.
Alexandros: Tell me in the village, no I mean in this school the other girls that were there, did you have good relations with them or not?
Eleni: Yes, we were thirty-two girls, at the time. I was living with another girl from the same village in Kipseli, Ano Kipseli, now I do not remember where it is, there I met another girl that we are still friends to this day, my Efi, we would meet up because we did not have money, we would go on foot, in the morning and afternoon.
Alexandros: The house you lived in there, did you rent it? Did the school rent it?
Eleni: What house my child, the house we lived in was one room from where my son is that small with a big step in that how we went down and it had one small room that had just one washroom, nothing else.
Alexandros: Did the school rent this?
Eleni: No, we paid for it.
Alexandros: How did you pay for it, did you work?
Eleni: The first monthly payment my parents had given it to me. I left the village with a loaf of bread some olives, and a couple of clothes. For a pillow, six months [I would sleep] in my hands.
Alexandros: I understand.
Eleni: I do not know how I am not crying. He yells at me that is why.
Alexandros: Okay so you stayed in the school for how long? Six months?
Eleni: Six months, they gave us time off for Easter only and we went.
Alexandros: And you returned to the village?
Eleni: Yes, of course.
Alexandros: How was that return do you remember it? How was it when you returned that Easter?
Eleni: When we went to our parents?
Alexandros: Yes, yes.
Eleni: What can I say, sadness. We sat to eat a big feast for everyone around the table, the children. I was upset but I would hide it. I did not want to upset my father and my sisters.
Alexandros: The rest of your family, you leaving from the home and after leaving the country, how did they feel, your sibling specifically? Did they see it as an opportunity for you? Were they sad?
Eleni: Listen, my older brother since my mother from eight children she gave him all her love. He did not care, he did not tell me a word. The ones who were really hurt were the young ones and my younger brother, Ilia who was right after me and we started working together young. He was hurt.
Alexandros: I understand, so we have left off at the school in Athens, the six months go by You finished the education let us say, and how did you come to Canada? Did you decide from a list? Did the people from the school send you? How did this process happen?
Eleni: They did not even ask us. Who we will leave what we will leave with, nothing. At the end when we finished it was the end of July 18, something like that at the end of 1960, they gave us a leave, four days. That was it. They told us to go to the port of Piraeus on the ship “Fideriki”, I did not even have a ticket in my hands, nothing, nothing.
Alexandros: So you did not know where you were going?
Eleni: No, they said Canada, what was Canada?
Alexandros: So, you did not know anything about Canada?
Eleni: Yes, then there it was only my father, my brother and I had met a young man then with the intention to bring him here, we went to the ship. Oh my God, the ship was huge. We started crying, the other girl had left a month before, the one I lived with, me and Efi never separated, she is in the U.S. married. Where are we going? Nothing. How do you say goodbye to a father, a poor goodhearted person? How do you say goodbye to your little siblings? My mother did not shed a single tea. Nothing. She did not tell me or give me any advice. good thing I have my brain. And we went on the ship, and when the ship left, sadly, it was whistling, and we were crying. It was hard, my child, very hard.
Alexandros: What did you do on the trip that many days?
Eleni: The trip? Us from the village to go on a ship like that? We had a little bucket here and –excuse me– vomiting and if we did not have anything [we would vomit only] our spit. We did not go out anywhere. The cabins were at the bottom where you could not see anything, because of the ocean.
Alexandros: When you say you did not go out, did things happen on the ship?
Eleni: Yes, a lot of nice things, a lot of nice shows.
Alexandros: What exactly would happen?
Eleni: Dances, they had Italian music and different games. I went to one. They put me and Efi, we did not win, we had to drink Coca Cola and we did not know what it was. And I drank it fast and I choked. It was really fun my child. They had a pool to go swimming, upstairs, but since we were so dizzy we did not go anywhere. Not even the big dining hall to eat. We did not go. Only in the afternoon we would go to get as many dry cookies, as our hands could fit so we could pass the next day. That was our food ten days only cookies nothing esle, we could not eat.
Alexandros: The rest of the people? What do you think they enjoyed their travel?
Eleni: Yes, a lot. They enjoyed it because it was not just us Greeks it was different ethnicities, Italians and more they enjoyed a lot. We would have fun with a little girl, where is the picture, Petro? There. Margret. That girl whenever she saw us we would go out and go and see the dolphins for a little and we would leave. She would not leave our arms, and we have a picture of her, who took it? I do not know.
Alexandros: Okay.
Eleni: Nothing. We did not enjoy anything. When it was time to get to Halifax, there was a mirror somewhere, and when I saw my face I lost it, it was black from the dust. And how would I shower? we grabbed each other, me and another girl who was there beside me, and we grabbed each other all three and we went into a shower together and the dirt all came off. Black. Black. Nothing. It was very beautiful but the ship bothered me a lot.
[00:24:14] Arriving in Halifax and later Toronto
And after we got off in Halifax. You should have seen that. When I saw black men with dark hands, pale on the inside dark on the outside, and their eyes shining, we got scared really scared. What would we eat there? Nothing. Again we starved again.
Alexandros: So, when you arrived in Halifax what happened exactly? Do you remember the process?
Eleni: They kept us there for three days. I do not remember too many things, there because we were doing really badly, and they asked us where we wanted to go each individually. And I preferred Toronto. I did not have anyone. Absolutely no one. Just that one young man I knew had first cousins and I had an address. Until this day we are good friends with those relatives.
Alexandros: So, when you got off in Halifa, they gave you the choice what city you would go to.
Eleni: No, they did not give us a choice we picked the choice.
Alexandros: Yes and you thought since I have some people maybe it is better to go to Toronto.
Eleni: No not from that, because I did not know if I would find them and If that is the right address, but because we would hear in Halifax all the other girls saying “Toronto, Toronto,” so, I thought since I have this address I should go to Toronto too. And my friend said since she had one person, with the paidomazoma (kidnapping of children) that happened when the war happened in Macedonia and they took them to Greece, that is how this girl at six years old found herself there. Why do not we go to Toronto?
Alexandros: This girl is Efi you are telling me about?
Eleni: Yes and that ιs how we came to Toronto.
Alexandros: When you came here you came with the train I am assuming.
Eleni: Yes we stayed for three days in Halifax and then we came by train to Montreal. I do not know how many girls stayed in Montreal, and then we waited for the train for Toronto. And then I was shocked, I fell asleep on a seat outside the train and if it was not for Efi I would still be there. She was yelling for me to wake up. Adventure. And when we came here there was a lady waiting for us who worked for the government…
Alexandros: Union Station?
Eleni: In Toronto and she talked to us, some lady would come to get us and all of that…
Alexandros: She spoke to you in Greek?
Eleni: Of course in Greek, and her phone number if we are not doing good to call her.
Alexandros: Was she Greek? What was she?
Eleni: Greek, but I do not remember from where or did not ask her. But she was very nice, she helped me a lot.
Alexandros: So, she was waiting for you at the station and when you got off she got your information.
Eleni: She only took over me. Efi had another lady. But we never lost each other. It is a mystery.
Alexandros: Was the other Greek woman there? And the other lady who…
Eleni: Yes, of course, because we went to different houses. That is how they had managed it I do not know how but we did not lose each other.
Alexandros: The first day you got to Toronto where did you sleep? Did you go directly to the house?
Eleni: When I get to Toronto?
Alexandros: Yes.
Eleni: The lady that took me over right away
Alexandros: What do you mean?
Eleni: The lady that I would go to her house as a domestic servant and the Greek woman told her –that is when they also gave me the name Helen– that she should not bother me for two days. She should leave me to sleep and eat, but she did not listen. She took me to a big store she got me the aprons for maids and such. And once we got to the house I did not know where I was she showed me the washing machine, the kitchen and I did not know about this, we would light wood and cook. She did not leave me alone at all. She had two kids. I stayed for two weeks, I called the woman and she came and got me with a young man and took me to another house.
Alexandros: Tell me a little more about this first family. They were Jewish you told me?
Eleni: Jewish.
Alexandros: And in those first days I can imagine and you’re telling me you did not know what was happening. What did you see in the house? What did you understand? Having passed six months, those first few days, six months of education I mean, those days how were they?
Eleni: Terrible, they were not good. Very hard.
Alexandros: What were you thinking? Did you want to go back?
Eleni: To go back to Greece?
Alexandros: Yes.
Eleni: I will tell you it that did not cross my mind. What I was thinking about was how I could succeed, how I could manage small kids, we did not know about diapers and such, to take care of them. That is what I was thinking about. How to act. When I did the cleaning the kids were sleeping, one I would take to school, five years old the other was a baby two-three months old. They had some type of store they would leave in the morning and come back at night. I struggled a lot, a lot.
Alexandros: I want you to tell me what did they do for work?
Eleni: I do not know what store they had. All I know is that when I went to clean the washroom when they left, the husband had some illness and the washroom would fill with shed from like a rash, and I asked her to get me gloves. I understood, I could not speak but I understood a lot. She told me “My maid will not have gloves” and I called the woman and she told me “Do not touch anything” and I left things as they were. She came with a young man from the government, they called her to go collect her kids and they took me and brought me to another house where I stayed until March.
Alexandros: 1961?
Eleni: I came in August, March of 1961. There was good. A boy who was twelve years old. He taught me a lot of English, but they would go on vacation for two weeks and I was scared to be by myself to be alone in such a big bungalow. I did not know if anyone would knock and stuff. So, she found me another lady for two weeks. I liked it more so I stayed there for three years, two and a half years.
Alexandros: Nice. So, from the first family you left, that ended, you found the second family, were they also…
Eleni: Very nice.
Alexandros: Were they Jewish?
Eleni: Yes, of course. Everyone was. And the third one.
Alexandros: Did you know what job she did or her husband?
Eleni: Yes they would sell men’s clothes.
Alexandros: And essentially, in the second house what exactly did you do?
Eleni: The second house they had the store with the men’s clothing.
Alexandros: Yes, and what did you do? Did you take care of the children?
Eleni: Yes, one child. Washing, ironing, all of that except for cooking. No cooking. She cooked when she came, and the kid would come from school, and they also had a sandwich for me, and we would eat together.
Alexandros: You liked that family?
Eleni: Yes, a lot.
Alexandros: Why did you like it?
Eleni: Because I really loved the child, that is why.
Alexandros: Did they treat you well?
Eleni: Very well, a lot.
Alexandros: What do you mean by that? Can you explain? How did you feel their love?
Eleni: They were very nice. They were… How do I say this? Very good people, so you can understand, they would bring the money from the store, this much, and they would leave it there. And I would go collect it and hide it because I was scared of someone coming in and taking it, wh. What should I do? At night, they would ask me, “Helen, where’s the money?” “There.” “Very good.” I would not leave from there if they did not go on vacations.
Alexandros: This whole time, in the beginning, have you seen the city at all? Had you gone out at all?
Eleni: Never, not until I got married in 1963. I did not know what the Eaton Center was or anything. I did not know the community outside at all, nothing, because I had one day a month off, on a Sunday for church and every Wednesday afternoon from 2 to 9 and I had found another house and would go and work there that day.
Alexandros: On Sunday, you were saying, in which church did you go to?
Eleni: Saint George.
Alexandros: What do you remember from St George?
Eleni: That was the first church.
Alexandros: What do you remember about Saint George? Can you tell me? How was it, for example, to be going to a Greek church here in Toronto? How did you feel?
Eleni: For me? Paradise. Because I loved and still love the church a lot. Paradise, a lot. And you would hear a Greek voice and see a Greek person to say good morning. And a second cousin, when I saw him in the church, he was sitting on one side, and I was sitting on the other, and as soon as I saw him, I yelled, “Christo, come over here.” Oh, my child.
Alexandros: During the period that passed until you got married, you said you went to a third family. How long did you stay there?
Eleni: Τwo and a half years, close to three.
Alexandros: Can you describe?
Eleni: I had signed for one year, not three. They had told us one year, but I was nοt a brave girl. I did not have bravery and liked it, so I stayed all those years. I also enjoyed my time there because she did not have kids there. Her daughter only had a little girl, which I adored. I adored her.
Alexandros: Τhis woman was of an older age, so she had a grandchild.
Eleni: She had three daughters.
Alexandros: But she did not have small kids?
Eleni: She had three grandsons and a girl from the second daughter. The third was studying.
Alexandros: I understand. And in this house again, you were doing the household work, I assume.
Eleni: Yes, I would not wash or iron them because they would take them elsewhere. I learned the kitchen right away. They did not eat a lot. The only thing they ate a lot was some meat. What do you call it? I do not remember they did not eat a lot. They ate fish, chicken, and pork chops a lot and many times, they do not eat pork. There I had a good time. Very good.
Alexandros: Τhis whole time, did you exchange letters with your parents?
Eleni: Of course.
Alexandros: What did you say in these letters?
Eleni: In the first letter I wrote, I wrote that I got here well, that I am here and I am trying to focus on the family that I will be helping out, and they will be helping me. The first letter I received from my mom was to invite my brother. I did not know where I was. What kind of invitation would I do to bring my brother before he had to go to the army.
Alexandros: Did you do this? Ultimately?
Eleni: I did.
Alexandros: When did this happen approximately?
Eleni: This happened in 1962. No 1961.
Alexandros: And how were you able to do this? This early?
Eleni: I was able to. The Jewish lady took me, and I did the papers.
Alexandros: What did you tell her?
Eleni: That we are a big family, and my parents, I did not say only for my mother. I said my parents want me to bring my brother. They did not disagree with me.
Alexandros: And they took responsibility for him.
Eleni: No, I did the invitation. They did not.
Alexandros: They just helped you do it?
Eleni: They helped me only with the invitation that I did. Where would he stay? What would he do? But you can not be a soft person, my child. And to not hurt my mother and not spoil her wants and needs, I did it, but I was lucky because when I left Greece, I got engaged.
Alexandros: Oh, you did not tell me about this.
Eleni: On the 22nd, I was engaged, and on the 24th, I left.
Alexandros: Indeed.
Eleni: And I wrote to my brother, do not dare to say, because the Greek Consul would definitely ask… Because other girls had fallen for it, so I knew… And I told him “Do not say that I am engaged. Nothing.
Alexandros: You met a guy in Athens?
Eleni: No, not in Athens, in the village, my son‘s father.
Alexandros: And in Athens, because you told me you had a contact, he would come to Athens?
Eleni: No, just one time he came for two hours. There was no contact, it was different times back then.
Alexandros: Yes, yes. I am just trying to understand. So, before you left you decided to get engaged. Did you get engaged in Athens?
Eleni: It was not my decision. They decided. My parents. His father, his grandfather, and my grandfather, who did not want it at all, but it happened.
Alexandros: Did you return to the village and get engaged?
Eleni: Yes.
Alexandros: Okay.
Eleni: My brother was invited by the Consul in order to get the visa. And up until the door, the older brother told him, “Do not say that our sister is engaged.” The first question of the Consul was, “Is your sister married?” “No engaged, and her fiance is a soldier.” “That is who she will take first to build her family first and then you.” I had so much joy. I can not even describe it because where would I take him? I was a maid. I was not even there for five months. No, not even three. Where would I take him? I did not even know where I was.
Alexandros: And in the end did you invite your done husband or?
Eleni: Yes, when he was let go from being a soldier, I wanted to do the invitation, but the Consul did not accept it because from the lady I was working for, he had the best information about my behaviour, and he did not want me to go through what the other girls went through. That is why he told me, “Helen, I will give you a letter. When you go to Athens…” Because I did not want to waste my money, I collected it through hard work. I wanted to get an apartment in Tripoli for when I am older… “You go to the Consul together with your fiance, and you will give him this letter in the hand, nothing else.”
Alexandros: Who is telling you all of this?
Eleni: The Canadian Consul.
Alexandros: Here?
Eleni: Yes, he told me because this happened with other girls they would take them and go to other cities, “I will give you this letter, book the ticket,” since he was poor he did not have anything, “and give it to the Consul.”
Alexandros: What was this letter?
Eleni: The letter wrote to give him a visa right away. And he gave it to him right away. He got the Visa right away before we got married.
Alexandros: So your husband came.
Eleni: Yes, we got married. We had a really nice wedding.
Alexandros: When did he come?
Eleni: He came in 1963.
Alexandros: When was this approximately?
Eleni: We came together. The Jewish lady told me she would give me an apartment for free. I would work, and they would give it. They had 12 buildings. They were really rich. For him to work in some of them, to clean. But when we came from the first day, they did not like him and they put him in a storage space where they would put the food, and there was a bed and a fridge, and they put us there from the first night to sleep.
Alexandros: Why did they not like him?
Eleni: I do not know. They never told me. They only told me that when we returned to Toronto, you would find a house and come to work for us. I did it for two months but I could not because they wanted me from seven in the morning to 7 in the afternoon. I could not do it.
Alexandros: Did your husband have family in Toronto?
Eleni: Yes, he had first cousins.
Alexandros: And when he came, when did you get married approximately?
Eleni: We got married in Greece three years after. I was here and I got married in Greece in 1963.
Alexandros: You got married in Greece or here?
Eleni: In Greece, what are you saying? With my siblings my parents, my village.
Alexandros: I did not understand that. So you did the invitation and then you came to Greece right? Is that what you mean?
Eleni: No, they did not accept the invitation.
Alexandros: No, I mean the letter that you brought. You brought it yourself to Greece, the letter you were saying that the Consul…
Eleni: I gave it to the Consul.
Alexandros: You yourself?
Eleni: Yes, yes. I took it with my father and him and I took it. I asked for the Consul, and I told him, “Τhis is from the Canadian Consul.”
Alexandros: Okay. So, explain to me how was this return to Greece for the first time after a while?
Eleni: Very bad.
Alexandros: Why was it bad?
Eleni: Even though I had a lot of excitement to see my siblings when I saw my ex I lost it. He was a different person.
Alexandros: Which ex are you talking about? I do not understand.
Eleni: My husband. Because we have been divorced. Different face.
Alexandros: As to what?
Eleni: Somehow, I do not know, I did not see him the way I knew him.
Alexandros: Ηad he changed more or you?
Eleni: Ηe did. I had stayed the same. Ηe had changed.
Alexandros: Υou got married, though?
Eleni: Yes, but if I had known what he had done, I would not have gotten married. I would have returned with the same ticket I had, but I learned it all after from my mother-in-law and his people.
Alexandros: Okay.
Eleni: I found out, but it was late.
Alexandros: So, you returned with him again to Toronto.
Eleni: Yes.
Alexandros: And you told me the story with the lady, but after how long did you begin to go out and see the city? I imagine that when you were married, you started going out more.
Eleni: When I returned from Greece, 10 days later approximately, I took two three days off to find a house. I did not know anything, the city where they rent, nothing. And as we were walking, we saw on Jarvis Street some houses for rent, and so it happened to go to one of those houses which was not for me.
Alexandros: Why? What do you mean?
Eleni: Because it was for the night. And this guy, who I had brought some things from Greece for him, told me, “Helen the window here did not have glass.” It just had a little curtain. My husband then, the next day, went out and learned everything. He went and found a job washing dishes. They were on Young Street and would come at three in the morning to the house. How would I be able to sleep? I started shaking when he showed me, and then I saw what was happening. And when he came I started crying and said tomorrow we will call the lady and we will go find a house. That is how it happened.
Alexandros: Where did you end up finding a place to stay?
Eleni: We found a Greek house from Sparta who became my son’s godfather.
Alexandros: Where was this house? What area?
Eleni: I do not remember. Petro, where was it? Where we got ours after that. Paramount and I do not remember, and Carrolton? That road would take me to the Sick Children’s Hospital, where I worked at. Right away.
Alexandros: When you got married after you continued to work?
Eleni: Yes, I continued not for long with the Jewish lady because I could not. It was a lot of hours, not even a month. One month.
Alexandros: And after that, what did you do?
Eleni: After I got a job at the hospital.
Alexandros: Explain to me what it was that? What did you do? What hospital? How did you find the job?
Eleni: My husband‘s cousin.
Alexandros: And what did you do there?
Eleni: At Toronto General Hospital. Two weeks, There I worked in the cafeteria. Only doctors and nurses would come for breakfast, mostly for breakfast. And the other two girls, when the truck came, the cousin and another one, one was on the grill, the other one on the coffee, and the other one on the toast and sandwiches. They left they stole, what they needed to steal, and they went to put it in the lockers. What would I do by myself? That day I was on the grill. One person would want eggs, the other bacon, what about coffee and toast? Who would do it. And they went, doctors, nurse, I do not know, went to the manager and told her I do not work. They thought that I would be able to do all the work. And she called me to her office, and she asked me, “Why are people complaining?” “What complaints,” I asked. I was able to communicate well; the Jewish lady taught me English. She said, “You did not serve them.” I said they and that the two other ones, when the truck comes, they steal coffee and stuff, take it to the lockers and how would I be able to do the work of three people? It is not possible. The grill, especially, is a hard job. She told me to be careful and work better.
Okay, lunchtime, across was the Sick Children Hospital. I went the way I was with the apron, and I asked for the main manager. And she accepted me. Her name was Margaret. She was 62. She helped me a lot. She did the application and told me, “You will come here and work tomorrow. I will put you in the cafeteria.” And I went back. I did not go to work; I went to that woman's office, and I had changed. I took the apron off and the hat and told her, “This is for you, I’m going,” and then I left. Yes, I did it, and I went to my work. It was funny. They put me one day at the cash register, and I did not know cash, and I would pass them all along, “Go eat” the poor, amputated legs; all of them left like that. I did not know what to do. They had told me, “If you see a symbol here, do not accept money.” For me, they all had symbols. It was just one day someone was missing. And then, when they saw I was good, they put me in the bake shop very hard work. Very hard. But there was a woman who taught me everything. She would read to me one time, and I would do it. That is when I fell pregnant to my Petro.
Alexandros: What period are we talking about now?
Eleni: 1963.
Alexandros: 1963, and you continued to work until you became pregnant?
Eleni: No, I left. I had hide it from them because I was skinny. I left, and then 10 days later, I gave birth. They threw me a nice baby shower with nurses and doctors. I lost it.
Alexandros: Where did you give birth?
Eleni: Toronto General. That is where it was free. You did not pay back then. Both of my children that is where I had them.
Alexandros: I still have a few questions about that period. I want you to tell me firstly the Greek people you had begun to meet because at this point you have begun to understand the city, the Greek people you had begun to meet and the immigrants here, I mean those who came at that time and the older ones [who came] before the war, how did you see them? How did they treat you? What kind of relationships do you have?
Eleni: We did not meet a lot before the war. They were all brought in 1959, 1960, 1958. We had many; some were good, and some were not. Just as our fingers are not the same, that is how the people were. They were not the same.
Alexandros: From the older ones? Had you met any pre-war immigrants?
Eleni: No, no. It did not happen.
Alexandros: And the stores? Did you go out at all for food, some type of entertainment, some movies, did you go to any of those?
Eleni: Not even until now, I have not been to the movies, for 64 years never. The only time I would go out was to do groceries.
Alexandros: Where did you go to shop?
Eleni: Close to there.
Alexandros: Greek stores? Or not.
Eleni: We did not know any Greek ones then. Foreign ones.
Alexandros: So, when you give birth to your child, what happened?
Eleni: When…
Alexandros: You said you gave birth to your first son. After that, what followed? Did you continue to work? Did you stay home? What did you do? Tell me.
Eleni: Yes, I left him 18 months old, 18 days old and I went to work because the manager called me that she had a part-time position. And I asked her what part-time position, and she said 5 to 11. I spoke to his godmother; we made a godmother later, and she would take after Petro and I went. I did not miss the opportunity.
Alexandros: what was it? What did you do?
Eleni: My job was to wash pots, where they would cook and that stuff and fridges. And I did it, but I did it fast. And I would tell her, “If I finish?” “You can leave,” she told me
Alexandros: Was this also at the hospital?
Eleni: What?
Alexandros: This job you are telling me about/
Eleni: At the same. At the Sick Children’s Hospital. And I would leave because I breastfed Petro until six months.
Alexandros: Your husband, at the same time, what did he do?
Eleni: From the beginning, he worked a night shift job.
Alexandros: The dishes you said?
Eleni: No. He left from the dishes. He worked somewhere where they would clean offices and stuff. Cleaner, cleaner.
Alexandros: This whole period, what were you thinking? Did you want to collect money? Like you said? Were you thinking of returning to Greece? Were you thinking to continue your future here? What were you thinking back then?
Eleni: I was thinking about my future here because the truth is the jobs in Greece were very tiring. The summers were hot. The winter is cold, but here, the jobs are inside. You did not feel that. And the only thing I wanted was a small house with three kids. I wanted one more kid, a good family. I had never loved wealth, even until now never. Wealth, to become rich. No. I just wanted a good family. I did it. I have two diamonds. I have the most expensive diamonds.
Alexandros: You had a daughter after?
Eleni: My Petro and my Vagelitsa.
Alexandros: If you wanna discuss, you told me that you got divorced. When did this happen approximately?
Eleni: 1990.
Alexandros: Oh, so it happened a lot later. We will get to that then. Have you brought your parents to Canada ever?
Eleni: No.
Alexandros: No.
Eleni: I only brought three siblings, two brothers and one sister.
Alexandros: You told me about your brother, whose application got denied. After that, did you make another application for the same one?
Eleni: Yes, of course. When he was let go from being a soldier. But first, I brought my brother, who was 16 years old. He was in grade 9. I wrote to my mother to let him finish middle school so he could come. That is when I got married, the same year we brought him.
Alexandros: So, it was your mother who was telling you…
Eleni: She did it all. It was her.
Alexandros: She had her mind on a specific plan?
Eleni: And he was only 16 years old.
Alexandros: And what did the child do at only 16?
Eleni: My husband signed him up for school, but he would fool us. He would not go. And he would go play pool, and an older man in the neighbourhood, who loved me, told me, and he went and found him, and he brought him home and told him, “What do you want?” He said, “I do not want school.” “Then you should work.” But for a year, we would not take rent from him or pay for food; he had everything from me and my husband. I can not deny it. He may have made mistakes, but he treated him well. Then I brought my sister again, 16 years old.
Alexandros: And what did she do here?
Eleni: She went to school for four years. Our father had died, and she lived alone with her mother. So I brought her too. But before my sister, I had also brought the one who was a soldier, and he brought a girl with him.
Alexandros: You told me your father passed away. Did you return to Greece? Were you able to go back?
Eleni: When my father passed away, my brother called my husband and told him, “Our father is asking for a little birdie to bring Eleni to see her.” I can not say anything; he treated me well. He got the tickets and I went. Petros was five years old and my daughter two. And I went to my father, I saw him, and I enjoyed him. I stayed for his funeral and the 40 days memorial, and then I left with the kids.
Alexandros: When you return to the village, because I understand you came back many times, that is what I am understanding.
Eleni: Many times, after my girl got married in Greece for 19 consecutive years.
Alexandros: When you would return to Greece, what would your relationships with the people in the village be like? Like I asked you initially about the people who had left and then returned, how did they view you? Did they ask you to help them come to Canada, for example?
Eleni: No, no one. Good relations. “How are you doing? How are you?” and such, but no, they did not ask, and they did not have expectations.
Alexandros: How did you view the village? Were there any developments?
Eleni: My village big time. Especially when I went to the coffee shop, where they took me to drink coffee. I lost it there. So, many women. And it was a small coffee shop with their coffee. I was embarrassed. Just seeing it. We did not know stuff like that in those times. Big difference.
Alexandros: When you had your kids here in Toronto, did you think of sending them to Greek school?
Eleni: Yes, from the first moment. My Petro went at five years old and Vagelitsa was young. How old was she? Five and Vagelitsa was four. And, actually, at five years old she went to second grade she was very smart.
Alexandros: Why did you wanna send them to Greek school?
Eleni: 13 years. Why? Because I wanted how I was taught by my parents the Greek environment how do I say it? The orthodox religion and everything. I also wanted especially the language. I wanted to teach my kids what my parents had taught me and I thought was good. I wanted to do that as well, and that is what it was.
Alexandros: Can you explain to me how Greek school ran back then? I imagine you sent your kids there once a week.
Eleni: Three days a week.
Alexandros: And how did you know about the Greek school? Did you go to the Greek Community?
Eleni: No, it was private. We would pay privately.
Alexandros: Did you have any relations with the Greek community? I mean, did you go to not just the dances but also the board, the elections, and stuff like that? Were you involved in those things, or was your husband?
Eleni: Not a lot because of work. One during the night the other during the day. The kids and stuff we did not have the proper time. No. The only things we did not miss at all were Sunday school and Greek school.
Alexandros: At St George, you mean.
Eleni: No, no. We lived close to the East General Hospital, on Mortimer.
Alexandros: What church did you go to?
Eleni: We would go to Saint Demetrios. Mostly to Saint Demetrios
Alexandros: Nice. I also want to ask you about where we are now, the old age home. How did this come into your life, and what is this old age home? Can you explain?
Eleni: The old age home, when I got divorced from my husband, I rented an apartment. I did not like it. And then, after a little while, a lady I knew told me that they had built the new section and they were looking for renters. That is how I applied, and they accepted me. Because they wanted to rent them. I was 57 years old when I came here. And on May 1st, it will be 30 years since I came here. Someone heard about it. They told me I did the application, and they accepted me.
Alexandros: So now, as a small sidenote, until you are 57 years old, you continue to work at different other jobs?
Eleni: No. I had a big accident at work in 1964. Sorry, I mean 1984.
Alexandros: Do you wanna tell me what type of accident?
Eleni: Yes, at worκ. I was working at the Peek Freans factory that makes cookies. While I was packing, because there were also another seven girls working there, we would switch every half an hour because it was a hard job. A Chinese guy with the lifter truck, did not notice me, and as I left the box I was supposed to, I went to get up, and it hit me here with the lift truck and it tossed me to the other side. Ever since then, I tried to go back to work but I was not able to. I was doing really bad. My lower back, the discs of my lower back, and more and I went downhill with everything.
Alexandros: And then you got divorced and this is how you decided to come here to the Home?
Eleni: No, we had not divorced yet.
Alexandros: Later on, I mean.
Eleni: Yeah, but the kids were in university, and I did not have anyone to take me to physiotherapy. Within a year, they called me for a tryout, and they put me in that hard job again, and I was stuck again.
Alexandros: So you did not continue working?
Eleni: No.
Alexandros: Did you get some type of pension?
Eleni: Yes, yes. I got workers’ compensation a little bit, very little, from the factory, nothing. When I retired there I only got 22 dollars and 53 cents. I worked for 14 years and a half.
Alexandros: So, explain to me again about the Greek nursing home, we are right now. You came here at 57 years old. You told me you rented.
Eleni: 1994.
Alexandros: 1994. What did you do? Exactly? You rented a house, and then what was this Greek nursing home?
Eleni: I rented this one here.
Alexandros: Yes.
Eleni: And it was Easter. May 1st. Easter. And I came here with Petro and we brought the stuff on Holy Wednesday. They did not let me stay and I stayed there. He let me stay there on the floor with a blanket. We had Easter with my sister and at 5 o’clock I came here to get the key with my Petro.
Alexandros: And you stayed here.
Eleni: Yes, here since then.
Alexandros: How is your life here in this Greek nursing home? Can you explain it to me? What do you do here?
Eleni: In the beginning, I struggled, and I was really upset because they started renting, and I would see one person with a cane, another person with a cane, another with a walker, and I would say, “Oh, my God, what happened,” because I did not have that then I was not doing well, but I only had a small cane. Oh no, what has happened and then I got used to it very nicely.
Alexandros: Does the old-age Home help you here at all? Is there some type of support? Do they help you with cleaning, for example? Can you explain that a little bit to me? How does that all work?
Eleni: A lot. They clean once a week, every Thursday. If anything breaks, they come right away. What should I say? I was so lucky in Canada that I have my two children and a small paradise in the old age home.
Alexandros: Why do you like it so much?
Eleni: Because they are so nice. Everyone, everyone. I do not have a single complaint about anyone. Do you know Penny Stathopoulos?
Alexandros: No, tell me.
Eleni: No, I just wanna say… Very good, very good. When I first came, we had Doctor Oreopoulos. If you have heard of him. A kidney surgeon. He saved me. The next day was St. George’s day, and with the manager they came to welcome me to my new home. We had put out some chocolates. I had a 40° fever, and the doctor told me, “What’s wrong, Miss. Vlachou?” “I have a fever.” He asked me why. “I said I do not know I have been going to East General Hospital for two years. They collected liquid from the back, but they could not find what I had.” My pills had finished. I did not know he was a doctor. “Where do you have them?” “In the kitchen,” he told me. “I will send you a nurse, and there was a pharmacy nearby to go bring them for you,” and she was his wife. And I found out after two months that he was a doctor and that. I felt better.
Alexandros: What did you end up having?
Eleni: High blood pressure in my right lung. In a normal person, it is 35, and I had 93, and I got asthma, and I had a mild heart attack from the fever, and they took me to the hospital.
Alexandros: Who comes here in the old age home? Do Greek people come? What is the process for someone to come here?
Eleni: Many. We have whatever you want. We have everything. Just with the coronavirus we got closed off a little bit. An association comes and brings us different stuff they share with us. Mostly the daughters of Penelope. Have you heard of them? Oh, we have a great time. Very good. A lot of events. At the Hellenic Home, they do breakfast and service, and we are happy, especially Mr. Kostouros, the manager. Everyone, one better than the other.
Alexandros: So, what is your relationship with the other renters here in the nursing home?
Eleni: You can not have relationships with everyone. You pick a person.
Alexandros: Tell me.
Eleni: Very good. The ones with whom I have [relations] are very good; the ones with whom I do not get along, I keep them far away. I say good morning to everyone, in general.
Alexandros: Can you explain why the Greek nursing home here in Toronto has two buildings? I am being told that one is like a building in which the renters live and the other one is something like a hospital or a space that takes care of the elderly better. Can you explain to me a little bit what happens in each section?
Eleni: Yes. Look, the building you can see across is the first one. This is where it is only for renting the building. I live in 39 Winona, which is for rent, and the first floor is the nursing home for the disabled. It is not a separate building. It is in this building. And right under me, there is a church, very nice. That Doctor Oreopoulos, may he rest in peace. He fought for the church. There is no third building in this building. They have a nursing home with a separate entrance around, not from the same entrance, and they take care of them. Well, I worked there for six years volunteering, and I would feed them. I even got an award. I have it there.
Alexandros: And essentially, you told me about different events that happened. What do you do? Exactly? Do they come and do different activities?
Eleni: Yes, different stuff. They come, and they teach us to dance. The one thing no one was able to do, but I really liked it was that they would come to teach us English. But no one knew anything and that is how it stopped. There was a teacher if you look there, there are a lot of programs a lot, and the best part is we have a really nice kitchen the space fits 700 people. This is where they will do things for Holy Thursday, Good Friday and everything there. The church is small, and they do really good food for us. They have banned salt, pepper, and that stuff. My son also eats there. He likes it. They make really good food.
Alexandros: And I wanted to ask you earlier if different people would come. I wanted to ask you more about if only Greek people come to the old aged home or do other people come.
Eleni:Mostly Greeks, in order to rent here they do not really accept foreigners. They have a lot of applications of Greeks who took care of and built this. They gave money, we all gave a little bit, and in this way, the government sent us a letter that the renters would only be Greek. Whoever else is already here you can not kick them out. The other ones who are here are a Romanian couple below me, they are both very nice. I had another one above me and I have one beside me. There are only three or four Romanians and if they pass away, they are not bringing any other ethnicities only Greeks.
Alexandros: With the neighbours and the other people here what do you do? How do you spend your time? Do you meet downstairs?
Eleni: I will tell you the truth. If you paid attention over there in the living room this is where we all get together, every night, the ones who came in 1994, 1995 until 1999. Around there. We are like a family. One does popcorn, the other one does loukoumades. We had a really good time. Now in the last four or five years, some people have come with who we do not get along. And we still say good morning to them, we talk to them. If I make cookies, I will give them, if they make they will give me. A neighbour, nothing further.
Alexandros: Do they have mentalities different from yours?
Eleni: Yes, different. There are a lot who have had a lot of education, universities and such, and they see us as a lot more inferior, and there we do not get along. That is what it is, but very good words can not describe the old age home. The staff of the Home. I can not describe it. And for our priest, we get some children, 40-42 years old who are very good.
Alexandros: So to conclude, so I do not tire you.
Eleni: No, you are not tiring me.
Alexandros: I want to ask you a couple more things. One is you told me you returned to Greece many times, did you go every summer?
Eleni: Only in the summer.
Alexandros: How did you do that? Only for a vacation to see your family?
Eleni: No, my daughter got married there, my Petro in England. What would I do there? Summer or winter. So, that is why I would go for two months to my daughter.
Alexandros: Oh, so you mean your daughter is married in Greece?
Eleni: Yes, and she is going come in July too.
Alexandros: Do you want to explain whether you wanted her to marry a Greek guy or if she found one herself? How did that happen and she returned?
Eleni: How she returned to Greece? She would talk about it from when she was little. She would say I am gonna get married in Greece.
Alexandros: And she lives in Greece?
Eleni: She lives in Greece, just like Petros, 30 years. One lives there, the other somewhere else.
Alexandros: You told me you never brought your parents to Canada.
Eleni: No.
Alexandros: Did you ever wanna bring them?
Eleni: They would not come even if I wanted to. What my husband wanted was to bring his parents. We did the application. They got approved. Everything was good, and my mother-in-law said she was going to stay there to sell some sheep they had and take care of them. My father-in-law came first. But a pampered person, who would go to the coffee shop in Tripoli to have a good time, he did not fit here. I went through a lot with a neighbor, who was my husband’s cousin.
Alexandros: Did your mother-in-law end up coming?
Eleni: No. My father-in-law did not even stay. My husband would not pay for his ticket to leave. And I had just given birth to my daughter. She was so small. Petros was three years old. I was in an ocean, and the waves would move me. Where would they take me, right or left? I did not know. So, he did not stay for even a month. And I talked to him many times. Please pay for his ticket so he can leave and then that is how he left. I had a really good relationship with my mother-in-law and father-in-law. My sister-in-law did not really like me in the beginning, but now.
Alexandros: And I wanted to ask you about today. Were you able to, as you told me, to get an apartment in Tripoli? Or do you have any property in Greece?
Eleni: Yes, I really wanted it. I had collected the money.
Alexandros: And you go there in Greece, I assume.
Eleni: I brought 4.000 dollars with me. A thousand was spent immediately because my husband was really poor, he did not have clothes or anything, so we bought that. And I did not end up getting the apartment and that is the only time I lied to my father. I had given the money to my father to keep it safe, and I had declared it in Athens. Other things took place, and the money was gone without the apartment.
Alexandros: And when was the last time you returned to Greece?
Eleni: Four or five years.
Alexandros: And where do you stay? That is what I want to ask.
Eleni: With my daughter. In the first few years, I would also go to the village, and I remember I played in a representation of the war play. Out of 80 women, they took me in the first 15. A lament of my village. The Germans had burnt down my village, and it was rebuilt a little further away.
Alexandros: Do you remember this?
Eleni: No, I do not remember that. But I know about the story.
Alexandros: So, Miss Eleni, that is all I had to ask. If there is anything you wanna tell me that I did not ask you or if you wanna discuss anything else you can tell me.
Eleni: I do not think so
Alexandros: do you wanna say anything
Eleni: No, I told you a lot.
Alexandros: I would like to thank you for participating in our study.
Eleni: No problem. If you wanna remove anything or remove it. It does not bother me.
Alexandros: Thank you. All the best.
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