Categories
Tags
Decades Referenced
Locations Referenced
Mytilene, Lesvos, Venezuela, Toronto
Occupation(s)
Parents Occupation(s)
Names Referenced
Toni Maroudas (Singer)
George Moliviatis was born in 1938 in Lesvos, where he spent his childhood. In 1969, after working as a vendor and inspired by his aunt’s earlier migration, he moved to Toronto with his wife. There, he worked various jobs before owning two KFC franchises. He remained active in the Greek community, co-founding the Pallesviakos Association “Arion” and serving on its board. Moliviatis speaks about maintaining ties to Lesvos, bringing his mother to Canada, and passing on Greek language and culture to his daughter.
Translation: Katerina Katsoulis
Alexandros: Mr. Molyviatis, hello. I am Alexandros Balasis, today is February 19th, and we are in Toronto. And I would like you to tell me your first name and last name, and when you were born.
George: Certainly, with pleasure. I am very pleased.
G: Well, my name is George Molyviatis, and I was born on April 11th, 1938.
A: And where were you born, Mr. Molyviatis?
G: In Mytilene.
A: In Mytilene. What were your childhood years like? Were you born inside Mytilene?
G: Inside Mytilene.
A: Tell me, what was Mytilene like back then?
G: Back then, Mytilene was completely different, both in terms of mentality and life, compared to today. But it was beautiful. I came here because my mother's sister lived here. And I came...
A: In Mytilene, let’s say, what did your parents do?
G: We had a bakery in the central market of Mytilene. It was my father’s.
A: On Ermou?
G: On Ermou. Now, yes, I see, you know Ermou.
A: I know Ermou.
G: Yes, yes. Yes, we used to call it the central market in those years. Now they’ve turned it into something else. Of course, back then the street was called “Ermou.” But no one called it Ermou; they called it “Central Market.” Now, because all kinds of shops have multiplied all over Mytilene, they no longer call it Central Market because... you understand.
A: Did you help your parents in the bakery? Did you go there or—
G: I went to school.
A: To school — Did you like school?
G: I finished school, I finished high school. All good. The high school is in the central area of Mytilene. It’s a big building with history. I finished there and stayed a bit longer at our house. Yes. Inside Mytilene.
A: In the 1940s, with the war, how do you remember it, as a child?
G: Well, look, I didn’t experience it myself, but from what I heard down the grapevine.
A: What do you mean?
G: In general, everyone would say their own opinion. Yes. I can’t describe it now, if you want me to write a book or put words about the '40s period when people were killing each other, etc... I don’t know these things of course, but we heard them. Whatever one person or another said.
A: Did you have memories, do you remember specific things? From your own experience?
G: In which regard, “if I remember”?
A: Let’s say from the period of occupation or the civil war period.
G: No, I don’t remember.
A: Did they have problems on the island?
G: I was young, I was young at that time. I can’t go into details. Now, what we heard from one person and another, "another story," so to speak. But personally, I don’t have the experience of these things to speak about.
A: And did you like school, did you go with pleasure or did you want to leave it?
G: I have pictures with my classmates, and when I’m on the island sometimes, it gives me great joy and emotion to be with one or two friends from those days when we were kids with short pants. Because back then, we were all required to wear short pants at the schools we went to. Different times, different mentalities, but they were beautiful. They were beautiful times. I have nothing unpleasant to say about my island, and for that, as long as I am healthy, I go there every summer. Of course, we have a family home there, which I keep maintained and fixed, and the most important of all is the sea. The sea is what I love. If here Lake Ontario were the sea, Toronto would be very different from all sides. But you see, it has "fresh water." While on the island, it's different. On the island, it’s different. The sea revives you.
A: Have you liked the sea since you were young?
G: I’ve always liked it. I’ve always liked the sea. Yes. Swimming. But generally, it gives you life. And one recent detail I’ll tell you: Before I left here from Toronto last year — or the year before, I don’t remember. I had a pain in my right leg behind the calf. You know where the calf is. Well, it hurt, it hurt. I went to the doctor here. He told me to take this ointment. Put it three times a day, and it will go away. It didn’t go away! I went to Mytilene. I went to see my friend there, a doctor. He gave me another cream. He said to put this one here. It didn’t go away either. And when I try to remember — it was the third or fourth swim I did in the sea — and when I went and swam, there was a concrete ramp with two stairs going down into the sea. And when I finished my swim and went to climb the stairs, my leg didn’t hurt. I said, what’s happening here? I went back into the sea. I did some movements, and I said, now I’ll try it on the stairs of my house, which is round and a bit crooked. I went and jumped on the stairs there! And the next day, I went to see my friend, the doctor we hang out with, and I said to him, "Hey Panagiotis, this and this happened, something, etc." And he said, "I wish we doctors knew the real medicine of the sea." It’s a phenomenon. So far, thank God.
A: You had... how many siblings?
G: Two siblings.
A: You had a sister, I think you told me.
G: No, I didn’t have a sister.
A: My mistake.
G: Two brothers, one of whom passed away many years ago.
A: So, you had a relative here in Canada, you told me earlier.
G: I had my mother's sister. My aunt.
A: Nice.
G: She was here and then came.
A: Do you know when she came here, approximately? And why did she come?
G: Many years ago. She had made a trip initially to Venezuela, to Caracas. They had gone there with her husband, and from there, they ended up and came to Toronto.
A: Did you have contact, or did your family have contact with this aunt?
G: Of course, of course.
A: With letters, I imagine.
G: Of course, at that time, it was only letters. You couldn’t imagine at that time calling by phone. A phone call would have cost you a fortune.
A: And what did you know about Toronto, as a child, let’s say?
G: I didn’t know anything.
A: Perhaps about Canada in general?
G: In general, I didn’t know anything. I knew that it was an advanced country, I can’t deny that. From what I heard from here and there, and from my aunt here, she would always say the best things... up to that point. But I didn’t know anything extra to say. And everything went well. We came here back then.
A: And how did you decide to come?
G: I made the decision because back then there were some small difficulties. What difficulties, you ask? I had a store in Mytilene, a shop in the heart of Mytilene. And I would go three or four times a week to the countryside. I mean, to the countryside, to the villages of the island. So, I would take orders from there. And I had a van with shelves inside, and it was full of coffee. I would sell coffee in half-kilo, kilo, and so on. I’d go to the cafés and deliver coffee to the small shops of the villages, and so on. That was my job back then. Everything was going well. But because back then, I won’t forget, to leave Mytilene and go to a village that maybe your wife knows and so on, the roads were old, dirt roads, with potholes. You would drive slowly and had to turn left and right to avoid the wheel falling into a pothole and breaking a spring underneath. That was the situation back then. It's not like now, where there are paved roads, and you speed, but also get killed by the speeds—let me also say that. Because as I said in an interview in Mytilene, I said, "It's not the turns, it’s not the slippery roads, I said this, I remember. Accidents happen because of speed. Don't drive fast.” Like someone who overtook me in Mytilene, speeding with their car, and when I got to the place, I went with some friends, and we were sitting with another group nearby. I said, "Hello, my friend, I don’t know you, you don’t know me. Come here. The speed you overtook me on the road. I thought you were having a health problem.” He laughed, “Why are you laughing?” “You shouldn’t drive fast. Because at the moment you overtook me, a child could be playing on the road or a dog, as I know from a case like that. What would you have done?”
A: So, you would go with the van from village to village and deliver...
G: I did my job, that is.
A: Can you explain a little what you did? You had a shop in Mytilene, did you do your supply there?
G: I had a shop in Mytilene, it was wholesale. And in Mytilene, certain small grocery shops would buy from me. But those who survived, there were no supermarkets like there are today. You had to go to the village, go to the grocer, go to the café owner, tell him what you wanted, coffee, you wanted this, you wanted that, etc. That’s how business was done back then. That’s why I went to the villages. But back on old roads, sometimes, when I went far to the other side of the island, I had to stay the night there to continue taking orders from the other villages and go back to Mytilene. It was a hassle, to be honest. But, thank God, everything went well, I have no complaints. It’s a beautiful island. What I can say is that it was and remains a wealthy island, and it should never have emptied out with people going abroad. Australia, Canada, America, and so on. I don’t know what happened. It’s an island that produces everything. It has a nice climate, "soft soil," as we say. But what can I say? It’s better for no one to start and leave and go to another place. You write the letter, "Come here, it’s better here," and then everyone gets excited. I think that something like this happened back then, and a lot of people left for abroad.
A: So, you had a business, how did you decide to come here, what convinced you?
G: I came on a trip to visit my aunt here. That was the trip, and from here and there, with all these details I’ve just mentioned—about the roads and this and that—and then, I said, "Let me stay." And that’s how I stayed here. Of course, I sold the shop I had back there. Yes, yes, yes, I sold the shop I had there. That was it.
A: When exactly did you come here?
G: I came in 1969. I came here in 1969.
A: And you left from Greece, did you go through a visa process, do you remember anything about the process, how it was back then?
G: Back then, to come from Greece to here, someone had to sponsor you from Canada, and my aunt, who was here, did that for me. It's not like now, when you just get on a plane and come, and whatever happens, happens. That's not how it works now, right?
A: Yes.
G: Well, what can I say, I don't know. So, that’s the whole situation.
A: But you’re telling me you had a job in Greece.
G: Yes.
A: So, why did you want to leave?
G: I decided, I decided not to continue that job and to come here.
A: And when you came here, did you arrange for your aunt to help you? How was the whole process?
G: It was nice, the cooperation. Initially, I worked in many places, like many others who came here.
A: Like in what places?
G: I did night shifts in a parking lot near the big hospital downtown. It was a lot, I can say. I would go there at night. What time did I go? About 11 PM until 5 in the morning. Night shift in the parking lot. It was a booth. I sat there, and when cars came in, I would tell them where to park, here, there, etc. That’s how I started. That’s how I started. After that, I moved on to other jobs. Then, after a while, a Dutchman, who is no longer alive, gave me the franchise here to own two Kentucky Fried Chicken stores. One I had, the other my late wife had. And we lived for many years under this company.
A: When you came here, did you know English?
G: When I came here, yes, I knew — I could communicate.
A: Did you take lessons in Greece, how did you know?
G: Yes, from there, yes, from Greece. Yes, I could communicate well. And then I came here and went to George Brown College.
A: What did you do there?
G: There, 8 months of English lessons. The state sent me. And then the state found me a job. It doesn’t matter that I left that job and went elsewhere.
A: When you came here, how did Toronto appear to you?
G: Generally, I can't say. Of course, the only thing I can say, and it still stays in my mind, when we left that morning from Athens, it was a sunny day in Athens. When we flew on the plane, we saw the living Acropolis below us as we were leaving. And when I got here, first Montreal and then Toronto, and when I came here, I saw half a meter of snow. And I remember, I said to my wife, ‘Hey woman, we came here, nice and good, but we left a beautiful sunny day, I say, from Athens, and now, I say, who will see, how will we go outside with this thing.’
G: But we didn’t take it to heart. We knew that it snows in Canada.
A: So, you came here married.
G: Of course.
A: You came with your wife. And how did you come to this decision? I mean, how, did you make it, or did she also want to come?
G: She wanted to. She wanted it more than me. Yes, that was it.
A: Why?
G: Well, she wanted to. She said it's foreign, Canada, etc. Yes, she wanted it. The reason she wanted it: she didn’t like the job I had on the island. The fact that I left in the mornings to go to the other side of the villages and came back late at night. That was what bothered her. She said, let's leave and stop this thing. You leave in the morning and come back late at night. Yes, yes. And that was what made me, let’s say. Of course. Times were different.
A: Did she have relatives here or not?
G: No. No, she didn’t. I only had my aunt, nothing else.
A: So you came here, married in... What season was it, you told me winter, winter?
G: Yes, 1969.
A: Was it winter?
G: If it’s October 15th, 1969. It was snowing from September here. Of course. Now the weather has changed, worldwide, of course.
A: You told me that you started going to college for a while. How did you find the fact that when you came to —
A: Surely when you came to Toronto, you saw that there were many Greeks. Did you expect that?
G: Yes, I had heard that there were Greeks here and that there was a Greek community. I had heard it from Greece. But when I first came, I said, let me recover from the trip first and then ask where this Greek community is, in what area it is, if I like it, to go see it, etc. And that happened over time.
A: Were there, let’s say, Greek newspapers, Greek radio stations that you listened to?
G: There were Greek newspapers — almost all the newspapers that were published at that time in Greece were also coming here. Of course, of course, of course. Sure, with some delay of a few days, but people would rush out to get them. There were no cell phones back then like today where you can just open and read. It was all about newspapers. People lined up to get one.
A: Did you care, were you following the news, or did you want to sort of leave all that behind?
G: No, no. I didn’t want to forget my homeland, no. I would also go and buy those newspapers and we would wait for the next week’s delivery. “Kostas” or “Giorgos,” whoever the distributor was at that time, would keep them for us. Yes, because many people would say “I want a newspaper.” Some would just grab whatever paper was there. But some would say, “I want this specific paper, as soon as it arrives,” and the guy would set it aside.
A; Where did you get them from?
G: Well, there were some shops around here.
A: Around here where?
G: Well, I don’t remember all the details.
A: Like on the Danforth? That’s what I’m trying to understand…
G: Yes, yes, generally on the Danforth, a bit further down here, yeah, around Bloor, it was around there…
A: I see.
A: Did you go to the Greek church, in the beginning, those initial years?
G: Of course, of course, of course I went. Definitely, definitely I went. And I still go to this day.
A: What was that experience like — going to the Greek church for the first time?
G: Well, look, it was something very moving. Because to leave your homeland, where you know the churches, the priests and all that, and then come here and find something similar — it was emotional, very emotional. And you say, how is it possible? It’s there, and it’s here too. Certain questions come to mind. Like, wow, this is a success, this whole thing. And indeed, it was a success, thanks to the Greek community at that time here. We started off well, and that’s continued to this day. What more can I say? That’s it.
A: I’d like to also ask you about your involvement with the Lesvos Association.
G: Look, this association was formed many years ago. A few of us from Lesvos gathered — I use the word Lesvos, with its capital being Mytilene, of course — since most of us were from across the island. Yes. And so we started an association back then.
A: Were you involved in that?
G: Yes, yes, yes. I was part of the committee when the association was formed. Yes, we created the association. A few others became presidents over time, some of whom, unfortunately, have passed away. But the association has remained all these years. Yes, I can say that…
A: Okay. Why did you all from Mytilene come together to form this association here? What did you have in mind?
G: So we could see each other, meet up, have a coffee and talk. To talk about our own things — things from back home. For example, “Do you remember when we met so many years ago in this or that place?” — sentimental things like that. And that still happens today. Even now.
A: And what was the process like for forming the association? Did you draft a constitution?
G: Of course.
A: How was that… Can you describe it? How does one form an association?
G: With a constitution, definitely. And with a lawyer, at the time. We sat down, laid everything out, and created the constitution, which still exists today. Yes, it still exists. Now, I don’t know — the younger people who have taken over the association may decide to change it at some point, and that’s their right.
A: Did the association have an impact when you created it? Did it have many members? Was it well received?
G: We had quite a few members, and I can say that, for a time, they were very active. Later, as more people came, membership decreased somewhat. But we’re still going strong today.
A: When you started the association, did you hold dances, for example?
G: Of course, we held dances.
A: What kind of reactions did you see at the association — can you recall?
G: Nothing specific — people would see each other and hug with emotion back then. That was it. And honestly, that was a great thing for the associations in this area — to meet someone from back home, even if you didn’t know them well, sit down, chat. It was nice.
A: What other activities did you organize — what else did you do?
G: Nothing much — we went on excursions, in the summer of course. We went to Niagara Falls, held elections two or three times. We had events here. That was it — for people to see each other. Not much else to say. We helped out here and there as best we could.
A: What do you mean by “helped out”?
G: In general, if someone had some kind of issue, we’d step in, talk, try to solve it.
A: That’s important — tell me a bit more.
G: Well, those are details.
A: But I want to hear the details. That’s why I’m here.
G: I can’t really tell you — I don’t remember now. To tell you what “Panagiotis”, or “Kostas” did…
A: Yes, yes, I understand.
G: What I’m saying covers it all. If someone had a problem, we’d get involved, offer support, intervene. That’s what we did. Mediation.
A: So the association helped people who had just arrived from Mytilene, for example, or people who were already living here? I’m not asking for names or specific cases.
G: In the first case, yes, we had contacts with people arriving from Mytilene and helped them find work.
A: That’s significant.
G: Yes. Generally, if they needed to rent an apartment or whatever, we provided help. I can’t say otherwise. Yes, we helped. That’s what we did. That’s what it was.
A: And the people you already knew from Lesvos — were they responsive? Did they want to join the association and contribute?
G: They did.
A: Or did you have to run around and recruit people?
G: No, they wanted to. Absolutely. Many of them at the time would say, “It’s a good thing this association was created — so we can meet up, see each other.”
A: And where would you meet?
G: Oh, here and there.
A: Did you have a physical space, I mean?
G: We had dances and parties, sure. But we also met in public places — like malls. Five or ten people here, others further down, others further up. We’d meet. Despite the distances — let’s be honest — it’s not easy to travel from far away just to grab a coffee. It’s hard. That was the period we lived through, up to today. I hope it continues with the younger generation. I truly hope so. And I think it will continue. Because from what I see, today’s young people are energetic. They love their homeland. They love the association. Now, 40–50 years later, no one can predict what will happen. That’s not something we can foresee.
A: You were also president of the Association, right?
G: Pardon?
A: You were also president of the Association.
G: I was treasurer for quite a few years. Then I took over as president.
A: What are the duties of the president in an association like this?
G: Nothing really. Simply put, we are ten members on the board. We all have the same rights. It’s just a matter of honor — we name Giorgos, or Kostas, or Pavlos as president. Not that by making someone president they’ll slam their hand on the table and say “this is how it’s going to be.” According to the constitution, we’re all equals. But we need someone to call president, or vice president, or whatever the title is. Still, the word “president” doesn’t give anyone more rights than the rest of the members.
A: Did you have something specific in mind when you were president? A certain direction you wanted to take, specific goals? How would you describe your presidency?
G: Look, I saw things through the lens of the people. I couldn’t chart a course from my own head, saying “this is what we must do.” I had to discuss it with others. Because otherwise, I’d be the one saying and the one answering — and that’s pointless and difficult. Yes, responses would come in. That’s why the Association has lasted all these years. And the greatest joy I feel today, even at this very moment we’re speaking, is that young people have taken over the Association. And these young people — they’re young, they have years ahead, they have life ahead. The Association will move forward. I told them, and I will keep telling them until I close my eyes: whatever you need, I’m by your side. I will never slam my hand on the table and say, “I was president for so many years, so you’ll do this or that.” No. That’s over. That was from another era. I’m with you, to help you. And please, emphasize that too. Of course, I’m still on the board. I’m still part of the board so I can also share my opinion. You understand, yes. That’s it. Nothing more.
A: I’d like you to tell me more about your relationship with Greece. Did you return to the island at all? For instance, how was it the first time you went back after emigrating?
G: It was a very emotional time back then. Very emotional, of course. Because when I returned, I remember that in my neighborhood there used to be just one car — and that was a taxi. And when I went back and saw cars parked left and right, I was shocked. I said, “Guys, what’s going on here?” And someone told me, “Kostas has a car, Maria has a car, Katerina has a car, Georgia has a car.” Wow! I was so happy! Because back in the day, there wasn’t even the prospect — not that they weren’t capable of having a car, they just didn’t have one. We had bicycles. You got around on your bike.
A: About when was the first time you went back?
G: I returned after quite a few years. Not too many, maybe six or seven years.
A: And did you keep in touch with the island afterward? Did you go back?
G: Of course, of course. At the time, my father was still alive, my mother was alive, and my brother too. I had contact, definitely. My mother came to Toronto twice.
A:Tell me about that. How did she find it?
G: Twice. She really liked it, she loved it. And there are still friends of mine who remember her, because we were invited to their homes. The proper way.
A: Did you start a family here? Did you have your children here?
G: Look, we didn’t say it at the beginning, but I’ll say it now — I came here married.
A: Yes, you did mention that.
G: My daughter was four years old when she came here.
A: I see.
G: Yes. So that’s why I say I got married in Greece. Yes, that’s how it was. And, well, everything turned out fine. Everything went well.
A: How was it for your daughter to come here at such a young age?
G: She was a baby, a child — she came here and it was fine. She loved this place, she really did, and she still does to this day. Yes, yes, yes. I have nothing to complain about. Everything went well.
A: Did you want to send her to Greek school?
G: She did go to Greek school.
A: Tell me about that. How was it?
G: She went to Greek school. Her Greek is flawless. Absolutely. She really did go to Greek school.
A: How did Greek schools operate back then?
G: At that time, they operated under the Greek community, which ran the school. There were also two other ones, I think, but I can’t recall exactly. But you’d go, register with the community, and they’d tell you — I think it was once a week — and you’d go and learn whatever Greek you could. But my daughter did well, and she speaks and writes Greek perfectly. Yes — and my grandson too — both my grandchildren, the boy and the girl — their Greek is flawless. Flawless. You can sit and talk with them and you don’t get what I often see around here, one word in English, one in Greek. No. Greek in Greek, English in English. Yes, that’s a beautiful thing. Everything’s good, everything’s good.
A: Did you — or better yet, how did you — help your daughter, who came here at such a young age, learn Greek? You mentioned Greek school, of course. I imagine you spoke Greek at home.
G: Yes.
A: Anything else? For example, were there songs playing in the house? Were there…?
G: Oh, of course, the songs we had… Even now, I still have my record player, and I’ve got songs from that time — Panagopoulos, Maroudas. Beautiful times. I could put that music on and it would give you chills, I’m telling you. Music you don’t hear nowadays, unfortunately. That time is gone. And today, wherever you go, at festivals or whatever, all you hear is this modern stuff — if I can call it that — which doesn’t mean much.
A: Books? Did you find Greek books here?
G: Yes. There were Greek books, of course. Definitely. Now, of course, things have changed, and we have to acknowledge that. Back then, if you wanted to travel from here to Greece, it was a real ordeal. If you took a boat, it would take 10 to 15 days, however long. Planes weren’t that frequent. If you wanted to go to Greece, sometimes you had to connect through Buffalo, or New York, or Montreal, and so on. Now, there are flights every day from here. You can hop on a plane and be in Athens in 9 hours. Big difference. And back then, nobody made the trip because… well, they’d say, “If I take the ship and it takes me 10–15 days to get there, and another 10–15 to come back, how much vacation time can I get from work?” Whereas now, you can go for just 10 days. You leave today, and the next week you’re back. Huge difference. Yes, yes, yes. Different times. Different times. And I can’t — let me say it the way we used to — I can’t ‘blame’ them. I say that in our dialect. All the eras were beautiful and lovely. That’s the truth.
A: How do you see the future of the Island’s Association?
G: Very good. At one point I was a bit, let’s say, “disheartened” — to use that word — but now that the young people have taken over, things will move forward—
A: Why were you disheartened?
G: Because I thought there was no one left to carry on. And some of those who were involved before, a long time ago, they were my age. I thought, where is this thing going? Me? You? But after last year’s dance, which was a success, and the one at the end of this month, that’ll also be a success… The young folks came in and revived everything. I said, okay, now we can breathe. We can breathe. And everything’s going to be fine.
A: Well, that’s all I had to ask for now. Is there anything else you’d like to add, something you’d want to say that I didn’t ask?
G: No, no my dear. What more can I say? I don’t know. And tell me how I look. I tilted my head over there, should I straighten it?
A: You look just fine. So, thank you very much.
G: Be well.
A: You be well too.
G: Where can I see this now…?
.png)
.png)
